Posts by Sea Breeze

14

Songs that trigger you as a former member.

by Riley in

so randy meisner from the eagles passed away today and it got me thinking.

what the hell was hotel california about ?

my list.

Sea Breeze

"Going off the rails on a crazy train" - Black Sabbath

"Losing my religion" - Depech Mode

"Don't Look Back" - Boston

"All Along the Watchtower" - Jimmy Hindrix

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

I have no interest in talking to you further right now, Sea Breeze

Well, I can certainly understand that. I am heartened by the fact that you seem to have latched on to the concept of Underserved Kindness.

But, unfortunately I see no evidence that you have entered into a contractural relationship with Jesus "for the forgiveness of sins" - Mt. 26: 27-28 Don't you want to get your sins forgiven?

The bigger problem, as I see it, is that even if you did want to get your sins forgiven by means of the blood of the New Covenant, you would try to make a deal with THE WRONG JESUS....one that doesn't exist, one that didn't raise his own body from the dead, one that went back to the ground or was simply disappeared.

The Jesus Christians are saved by has "a name that is above every name", Why? Because he did what no one could ever do - raise himself (his body) from the dead. It is every Christian's guarantee that they will live as long as Jesus does in their own body... just like Jesus.

The apostles never taught that Jesus would receive a different body. You must know that. If we preach anything other than what the apostes preached we are cursed of God.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. - Gal. 1: 8-9

My advice is to simply find a decent bible-believing church (preferably a majority text preaching church) and just go, sit quielty and listen for 2-3 years.... make a few genuine friends at some of the pot-lucks while you are at it....Friends that may not care if you don't come all the time, but are happy to see you when you do.

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

EP,

Here is the verse in question with Strongs numbers that anyone can look up:

John 2:21 - But G1161 he G1565 spake G3004 of G4012 the G3588 temple G3485 of his G848 body G4983.

The Greek word is SOMA. It means body.... as opposed to the other two parts of man - his soul and spirit. For instance:

And fear not them which kill the body, G4983 but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body G4983 in hell. - Mt. 10: 28

Jesus specifically states his BODY is what will be raised. That is a fact. It is clearly recorded in scripture for eternity. It read the same 2000 years ago. It will read the same in 2 years from now and 2000 years from now. You cannot change that fact, no matter how hard you try, no matter how much you dislike the fact that Jesus predicted, that while dead, He would raise his own body from the dead; it will read the same in any language.

Your interpretation doesn't fit the leading of the holy spirit or the healthful teaching.

How would you know? Only born again Christians are inhabited and led by the Holy Spirit. Do you claim to be of the annointed?

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

I know Jesus died and was resurrected.

But you ALSO claim Jesus body never rose from the dead. Can’t have both EP. Especially since Jesus specifically mentions his body is what will be raised!

I know you can read and understand the English language. It’s like you are under some sort of spell and suspend common sense when reading scriptures that don’t support your WT training.

You are simply trying to make a WT doctrine (actually an ancient heresy) fit the Bible. And, as with all false doctrines, it doesn’t fit.

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

EP,

You are gaslighting now.

Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. - John 2

God says if we believe Jesus' body wasn't raised from the dead (like you and WT maintain). "we are still in our sins".

Does that concern you ?

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

EP,

It sounds like you are willing to entertain any possibility EXCEPT the one that Jesus clearly stated; and that is: when they killed his body he would resurrect his own body.... while he was still dead.

Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. - John 2

God says if we believe Jesus' body wasn't raised from the dead ... "we are still in our sins".

Does that concern you ?

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

So you think Jesus’ body went back to the ground?

Where? The tomb was empty.

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

EP,

Your belief that Jesus' body was simply materialized and not his own body is identical to the WT position where his body was not resurrected, but was "disovled into gasses". Do you believe that too? If not, what happened to Jesus body if it was not resurrected?

Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. - John 2

Do you think it is a bad bet to contradict Jesus, especially in lifght of Paul's warnings about the implications of such a position?

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

EP,

In this most famous prophecy, Jesus announced that while dead, he would resurrect his own body from the dead.

So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?”

Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. - John 2

Did Jesus lie?

Saying scriptures are "symbolic" is the same as ripping out parts of the bible that don't agree with certain viewpoints. It is an easy way to try and get the scriptures to agree while holding on to cherished assumptions.

It takes effort to dig out the truth that allows the scriptures to speak for themselves in harmony. "Spiritualizing" verses is similar to "hand waving" in argumentation. It has pagued Christianity since the first century gnostics became interested in Christianity.

One of the things that astonished me in my journey after getting saved was just how many things in the bible were literal and not symbolic, figurative, or metaphorical.

Anyway, I don't expect you to give up all your symbolic interpretation of scripture in just one discussion. Just know that this is a major topic of discussion in the bible as Paul shows in Corinthians and each generation of Christians therefter has had to deal with - literal vs. symbolic interpretation, especially in new believers.

Here is a fuller discussion on why the bodily resurrection of Jesus is so important.

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Sea Breeze

Scripture says that we are soul, body and spirit, explicitly in two places. The martyred souls under the altar in Rev. 6: 9-11 are just that.... souls. They have not been resurrected to spirit life. They are conscious dead souls, who feel, remember, speak and think just like those who are alive. They are in heaven, awaiting their resurrection.

Below is a discussion on what happens to Christians who are resurrected with their soul, body and soul in tact....... in the future. It is from GotQuestions.org.

The term spiritual body seems to be an oxymoron. A basic point to be made, based on the term, is that the resurrection body cannot be wholly spiritual; otherwise, it could not be a “body.” It is a human body, but there is something different about it, as Paul explains in context.

Taking in the whole of 1 Corinthians 15, we have the following descriptions of the body we have now versus the future resurrected body:

earthly vs. heavenly (verse 40)
perishable vs. imperishable (verse 42)
dishonorable vs. glorified (verse 43)
subject to weakness vs. raised in power (verse 43)
natural vs. spiritual (verse 44)
bearing Adam’s image vs. bearing Christ’s image (verse 49)
mortal vs. immortal (verse 53)

All the way through the text, the word body is used.

Earlier in the chapter, Paul lays the foundation for his discussion of the spiritual body: “Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another” (1 Corinthians 15:39).

Note the illustration of differing kinds of flesh:

• fish have a body perfectly suited for their life in the water
• birds have a body perfectly suited for flying through the air
• animals have a body perfectly suited for their needs in the animal kingdom
• people have a body perfectly suited for life on this earthly plane

So, here’s Paul’s point: after the resurrection, we will have a body perfectly suited for life in heaven...[and/or earth]. The “spiritual body” will be made of flesh (like Jesus’ body is), but a different kind of flesh than what we have now.

The passage continues: “There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor” (1 Corinthians 15:40–41). So, we can also say that the resurrection body—the spiritual body—will have a different “splendor” than our earthly, natural body.

The spiritual body is suited to eternal life. It is not subject to decay or death; it will not be inconvenienced by any of the physical functions necessary for life here and now. The spiritual body will be a real body, but in a different mode of being. It will be an upgrade: at the resurrection, our bodies will go from Version 1.0 to Version 2.0. Better yet, to extend Paul’s illustration in 1 Corinthians 15:39, our bodies now are the “seed”; our bodies then will be the blossom. Just as a poppy is more glorious than the seed from which it came, the spiritual body will be more glorious than the physical body that died.